Under the Global Umbrella Episode 4: Colin Kimber

In this episode of Under the Global Umbrella, hosts Char Bailey and Kat Parsons welcome Colin Kimber from Pareto, winner of the Rainbow Honours 2024 Inspirational Role Model of the Year Award. Colin reflects on his journey from professional dancer and teacher to a senior career in facilities management, and the importance of visible LGBTQIA+ role models. Together, they explore inclusive workplace design, the power of employee networks and why giving people choice helps everyone thrive. It’s an honest and uplifting conversation about kindness, leadership, recognition and creating workplaces where people can truly be themselves.

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SPEAKER_01 0:16

Welcome back to Under the Global Umbrella, a podcast celebrating the people and organisations driving real change in diversity, equity, and inclusion across the world. I'm Shah Bailey and I'm taking you on this journey with none other than the CEO of Diversity Umbrella.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

It's me, Kat Parsons! We have created this series to shine a spotlight on the incredible winners and change makers from the British Diversity Awards, the European Diversity Awards, the Rainbow Honours, and the Employee Network Awards.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Through honest conversations and powerful storytelling, we go beyond the headlines to explore the impact behind the accolades, sharing lived experiences, bold leadership, and the ideas shaping more inclusive workplaces and communities.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Because recognition matters, but understanding the journey behind it matters even more.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

This week we are joined by another incredible guest who really does put their heart into everything they do. Inclusion really matters to them and they really do embody what it means to put that into practice. We have today with us the incredible Colin Kimber. Hello, Colin, how are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Hello, hello. I'm good. I'm very good, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Wonderful. Not only is this Colin Kimber, this is the award-winning Rainbow Honours 2024 Inspirational Role Model of the Year. And the Crowd Girls World.

unknown 1:37

Woo!

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Yay! And you know what? It's taken two years for me to be able to comfortably go yay about that and actually feel really proud of it. It was uh I didn't know what to do with it to start with. You know, I uh, you know, it was fabulous. It was a fabulous experience. But like I, you know, I didn't know I'd been entered. And Kat, you and I were kind of involved because we were s we were co-sponsoring and stuff like that. So like we were we were involved in the background, which was very comfortable for me because of the network stuff I do. But then all of a sudden I was a finalist. Uh and it's quite it's quite a funny story. Because we were a sponsor, I was also a person that gets to bring an award on stage too. And I'm like psychotically early for everything. So I had gone to the side of the stage, really three hours early. Exactly. And I was told that I really maybe I should go and sit down again. But then I looked at where my table was and I thought, well, maybe I'll just get a glass of wine and stay here. And I said, Look, is it okay if I just stay here? And and uh and and I was told, yes, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 2:35

And for context, I was actually a guest of Pareto, which is where you work. So I was sat with your husband and your very lovely team on the table, and we're all like, Where's Colin? Because his category's coming up soon. And I said, Oh, there's no way he's gonna win if he's given an award out and he's not where he needs to be, like he has he can't have won this.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

And then Well, and then Lady Phil said my name. And I and I and I just, you know, when you just hear your name said, and then I was like, What? Huh? And then and there was a moment then where I wasn't sure whether I had been mentioned as the as the you know highly commended person, in which case you're told to stay at your table. Um but now I was the winner, and I I looked at the stage and Lady Phil was just looking at me, going, It's you, it's you.

unknown 3:15

Move.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

So um so yeah, yeah. And I hadn't really I hadn't thought I was gonna win, so I didn't have anything really prepared. I thanked my wonderful husband.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Who was in tears at the table.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Bless him. But um, but yeah, it was it was just amazing. And then the next thing, I you know, we're we're taken off the stage and then we get to go and speak to you, Shar. And uh I just feel like I just like I just made noises.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

You you were fantastic to interview. You gave a brilliant hug. And I could tell that you really, really cared. And you mentioned, Colin, that it took you a while to sort of let that sink in to acknowledge that you'd been recognised in this way. So when that sort of hit home for you, what did it what did it mean to you personally to be recognised by such an you know a a huge awards and you know, to win inspirational role model of the year, it it can be really life-changing for people to get that accolade?

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Um, I think it was. I mean, from a personal perspective, it was really it really helped me grow because I I had no choice but to sit there and connect with what I'd achieved. Because I I'm a person that just likes to do stuff. I like to I like to get things done, I like a list. You know, I'm I'm in the facilities management industry. We we run around buildings looking for things that are wrong and fixing them and listening to what people need. So that's just what I'm like. So uh when I got involved in um in LGBTQ networking and supporting people across different businesses, I just did it because I thought it was the right thing to do. I was very connected to the fact that I wanted to be a visible role model because that was um absent when I was coming through the ranks. Um and I, you know, to the point where I actually felt like senior jobs weren't really on the cards for me because that wasn't what gay people had. Um so I'd kind of and I'd kind of weirdly accepted that about my journey. So um, so yeah, I had to really I had to really connect with the impact of what I'd achieved. And it it took me, yeah, it took me a long while. And I I think it was a good thing that it taught me how to be proud of what I'd done because I was very uncomfortable saying that out loud. It's weird. I I started my career as a professional dancer, right? So I was on stage. Yeah, I was on stage in the spotlight, lovely. But like but that only lasted for a short amount of time, I suppose, relatively speaking, and then I started teaching. So when I look back now, I can see that the thread that runs through my whole life is helping people to be the best they can be. So I can see that in everything I've done. But then all of a sudden I was thrust back into the spotlight and and I and I became very visible. Um, and I had to become comfortable with that too. Uh yeah. But um I I had a few people around me that were really, really supportive and helped me to sort of get comfortable with that. You know, I uh I said it to myself a lot in the mirror. I said, I'm proud of you, you know, and just got used to even saying those words.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

But um it's so interesting because in terms of like you you know, you see people that get, you know, these awards, they're on stage, they're doing their speeches and stuff. They're you know, obviously everyone's really excited. Your table were over you know, they were on their feet when your name was was read out. But it's really interesting that it took you a while to sort of accept that and feel comfortable because it is a big thing. And especially inspirational role model. You know, there's obviously, you know, you that's that's that's a tricky one to to win because you know, by definition, you're inspiring people, which again is that that visibility. And it's interesting you say about always sort of feeling you had that ceiling in terms of that you as a gay man wouldn't get into those sort of more senior positions. And now not only are you in that senior position, you're winning awards in that position.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Well, yeah, and I mean I look I suppose when when I look back through my life, there are gay people do weird things. Like, you know, we we work harder than everybody else because we feel like we need to legitimise and justify ourselves. Um so we feel, and I think it was the same for women, it's the same for people of colour, you know, like um if you're not a straight white person, then uh you feel like you need to be extra specially good at what you do just to be accepted at the same level as someone else. And I get that a lot of that's in our own heads. I get that. Yeah, I I kind of I kind of have done that to myself. And the other thing that I definitely did myself, and I do see it in other people around me, is like, you know, we accept our lot. So like if you are if you find yourself in a situation where you're not going to get supported, and that um that other people that are not like you do get all the opportunities and stuff like that, to a degree, rather than rather than have stress the whole time, you accept the world you live in. And I think I think to a degree I'd I'd done that a little bit. Now, don't get me wrong, I was doing great stuff. I was working for an organization that really, really supported me and really wanted to be visible and gobby almost about the things that we believed in as an organization, but it hadn't actually happened, like this hadn't happened to me. I was doing all this stuff and it was a little bit in the background, and then all of a sudden I'm on stage and being told that I'm inspirational. And I and I, yeah, I kind of had to sort of yeah, go back and connect with it. And when I did do that, uh it was a very positive experience because actually I went back and I, you know, it doesn't happen every single day. You're not inspirational to someone every single day, but there absolutely had been points in time where I'd had a significant impact on other people. Um there there were two individuals that I can think of. There was there was one guy during the pandemic who was um a young Muslim Gaelic uh who was uh working for a very small company and was completely alone um in his peer group, and he reached out to me because of the uh LGBT network. Um, and I I thought, well we're look, we're all isolated, let's just jump on a teams. And we had a we had a lovely half an hour conversation about how he how he was feeling and what he was going through, and I was able to give him some advice, and he's flying in his career now. You know, he he chose to leave that place and actually find somewhere where there was more support, and he was going to be able to be who he was. Um and I think the other one that um really uh really hit home for me was um was um somebody somebody that was working in a very, very traditionally straight male environment in our industry um randomly approached me and hilariously I thought that they wanted to make some sort of HR complaint. So I thought they wanted you. No, not against me, but I thought they wanted to talk to me about something that had gone wrong. But actually they wanted to talk to me about the fact that recently they had started to have same-sex feelings for some of their some of their friends and people they were socializing with. And this person just wanted to talk about the fact that he had those feelings. Um he wanted a little bit of help processing it. He wanted to hear from me that it was okay that he didn't have to talk to anybody if he didn't want to, and that it didn't change anything about who he was or or the relationship that he had with with a woman. So, you know, the fact that someone felt brave enough to come and approach me to speak about that, I was like, wow wow.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

That's massive trust, isn't it? Again, it that's something I think you put out. I don't know, Shar, you're exactly the same in terms of you sort of attract people, it's that safe space bit. And I think sometimes, like you say, you're not gonna wake up every morning and be like, today's the day, I'm feeling inspirational, like it doesn't like it doesn't work like that. But I think there is a bit in terms of like, you know, down to the core of who you are as a person, I think, you know, that kind of just being a smile or someone to have a bit of a so I had a really nice example recently. I was at the House of Commons, Clang, and um and I was in the security queue, and I if you've been before, it's like airport security, but not as fun because you're not going anywhere hot and tropical, and you've I mean the whole body scan and everything else, and the woman in front of me was getting quite sort of flustered, and I made a couple of jokes about yeah, not being on holiday and hadn't packed my flip-flops and bits and pieces, and it and she you know, she sort of reacted to me, you know, smiled and we sort of went on our way. And then she contacted me afterwards about two days later, she found out who I was through Instagram and messaged me and said, I was having a terrible day, awful day, and just you being like a smile and a bit of a joke just absolutely changed my day. So I think it's that thing, isn't it? You don't have to be inspirational every moment of the day, but that what you give out into Shah, you'd talk about this beautifully, like what you yeah, what you project, I think is what you attract as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Yeah, well we we often talk about it's not sort of what you are, it's who you are. I think every single person who has won the Inspirational Role Model Award comes with a lot of humility. There's never anyone who's come backstage and said, Oh yeah, I knew I was going to inspirational role model. I'm just inspiring people all the time. It's just they consciously put their attention and their energy into being open, being kind, being receptive, being helpful. And that really does inspire people to want to go for what they want to go for, to be who they want to be. And it's not necessarily seeing you, it's being the recipient of your kindness that is that is really the thing that inspires people. So Colin, you are an inspiration.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

And you mentioned before about the LGBTQIA plus network. Do you want to tell us a bit more? Because that's actually quite a massive sort of on the side of the desk role that you have in terms of creating this network across facilities management organizations. So it's not just your own organization that you're sort of championing. You know, to be able to get competitors in the same room at the same time within facilities. That's something that doesn't happen every day.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

It's not, it's not. And I well, first of all, I'm going to say I'm not the original founder. Originally it was founded uh four organizations, large organizations that had big LGBTQ ERGs, decided that it would be a good idea for them to uh talk to each other so that they weren't all doing the same job, you know, and we could they could share best practice and it kind of broadened out. Um and it was my f it was my first experience of um of of positive networking, really. I hated networking. Uh I I I hated it with a passion, and I would always have to take someone with me so that I didn't have to talk to any strangers. Take a friend. Yeah, exactly. Um, and then I'd just talk to them the whole time and eat the canopies. But um, but anyway, um when I went to work for Pareto, I kind of thought, right, come on, this is your opportunity to sort of like really, really establish yourself in your career. Um, why not try networking with your own people and see if that makes a difference? And I'd seen an article, um, there is someone that transitioned uh very publicly in our industry, um, and it was well documented, and the company did an amazing job of supporting her. And I read an article in our in our industry magazine, and I was like, I am reading a facilities magazine that has a trans woman in it talking about her amazing journey. And at the end of the article, it talked about this network. Uh, and it said, get in touch if you want to get involved. And I I just went to one meeting and then kind of never left. Um, but um, but yeah, I um well, I mentioned already I'm a doer, so like when it came to like organizing things like events, I was the one that could make things happen. Uh, we had an interesting customer base, so I could often find really cool places that we could have events and stuff like that. So I did that for a while. Um, and then as the network uh grew, we put a new structure in place and I became one of the co-chairs. So, yeah, what we do is um we write guidance documents uh that are available to all of our individual and corporate members that talk about things like inclusive recruitment, um inclusive language. We've just written one about how to uh how to create ERGs, but also for existing ERGs, how do you keep it fresh, you know, and how do you how do you maintain everybody's interest and all that sort of thing. Um we also uh meet with all our corporate members four times a year, which um which is really interesting. We all do a little bit of an update, but the main reason we get together is because it's a safe space where we're not taking notes, and people that are running ERGs inside organizations can talk openly about the challenges they face internally. And there's no you know, no one talks about what we talk about outside, but you can you can talk about how like how you know your senior sponsor isn't doing a great job, and like and we can talk about how do you re-engage with them and stuff like that. And I I kind of saw that as a that's a gap around ERGs. There's nowhere for people to go and bit your bit about what they're going through. So we do that, um and we do we do a newsletter quarterly where we just round up everything that's going on in the business. I think earlier on in the network's life we kind of felt like we needed to be doing it, doing everything. But then we realised when we started bringing all of the organizations together that loads of people are doing loads of great things. And actually, if we're sending a newsletter out just to engage with people that maybe don't come to everything we do, they'll see that there's really a lot of action going on inside the industry. It's just happening in in different places.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Yeah, because it is you know, it's an interesting sector, isn't it, being in FM? It's it's it has a bit of a a stigma about it. There's a particular group of people that we think we would see in those environments. So what sort of what's the responsibility like being seen as a role model in that particular sector? Because it's not like I guess the the EDI space where we expect to see minorities, we expect to see diversity. It's you know, it must be a little bit of a different task for you.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

It is, and I I mean there is diversity in the industry, um, but uh but you find it more on the front line. Uh so like you know, that's where your entry level and your customer facing teams are, it's where your cleaning teams are, your security teams are, where you you you normally find a lot more women, you find a lot more people of colour um in those positions. Uh and I suppose the responsibility I see is making sure making sure that everyone's casting their net as wide as they can when they're trying to bring people into the industry. Um but also for for people like me to talk about what's great about the industry. I mean, like, you know, I know there have been ups and downs, of course, but the thing is, you know, I was someone that didn't really, I didn't really know what I wanted to do after I came out of teaching and dancing. Um but I knew that I liked working with people and I like pro I like solving problems. And facilities is kind of somewhere you can go and not really have to know what you want to do. Because you can just uh go and do a good job, be part of a great team, and then actually you start understanding the different things that there are, um, and then you can go down a road that you know that that suits you. I mean, I started very much in the sort of like customer experience space, and then I moved into sort of technical and compliance because I knew I wanted to be taken seriously in my career, and I thought, well, you're going to need to know how it actually runs the building, not just that it's pretty and clean. Um and and you know, and it was only after that that I realized that really where where my focus is is around culture, engagement, team building, you know, and actually build building fantastic relationships with customers and and with your employees.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah. I'm laughing slightly because I was in the facilities management sector and that's how we met. And when I um mine was a complete career change. I was in construction and environment and those sorts of roles, and then I had this career change into FM, and at the interview I still hadn't got a clue what FM actually stood for. Well I still have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

I still meet people that are disappointed that it's not radio.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Radio. Yes, yes, it's not radio. It's definitely not radio. But it is, it's about it's about those workspaces and like your client base. You know, you're you're in and out of client buildings, you know, big brands. So it's actually almost that responsibility, not only in terms of your own organization, so Pareto, getting the culture right there, but then you've you've got an army of people, as you say, that are sort of frontline staff who are then out in client buildings, you know, big buildings across the UK and probably wider. Um, and again, you're sort of fitting into their culture but influencing their culture. And there's a lot of that sort of best practice as well. And I think facilities management has a big responsibility in terms of a lot of companies are trying to work out what an inclusive physical workspace looks like for someone who is neurodivergent or someone who is trans or someone who is menopausal. Like what like it's almost trying to give that best practice, isn't it to say, look, if you want to, you know, attract talent, keep talent, talent thrives, you know, this is what the space should actually look like. So it's about that best practice as well, isn't it? Again, the the responsibility you have is huge.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

It is, it is. And I think, you know, the the the one thing that um I I try not to think about it for too long because it's a little bit overwhelming. FM is everywhere. Like every every single person that that well, every single person that works or goes to get services or healthcare or anything anywhere, there is facilities. Someone is making sure that it is safe, that it's accessible, that the lights work, that the toilets work, you know, that it's secure, that there's catering, you know, someone's doing all of that. So I look at it and I think we are everywhere. Which means that actually if we become a united voice in the way that we approach the human experience in the workplace, then actually we can really influence. I mean, something that's really it's always been there in Pareto, but it happens, it's happening more and more now. Um we're getting job opportunities with customers because we're culturally aligned. And, you know, that's I mean, although I look after everybody in the business and I'm there to make sure that we are who we say we are, um, but the sort of customer-facing side of what I do is um I go in there and talk about how we're going to work together and how we're going to create shared values together and actually move forward as a wider team, which doesn't often happen in the facilities industry. So, you know, I I look at it like that. I think that the workplace is about is about how you experience it now. And yes, of course, it does need it does need to be compliant, you know, and you do want the things in it to work for you. But it needs to allow you to flexibly be yourself. And and and that's how people thrive.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

And it's gone are the days where it's just banks and banks of desks, isn't it? Yes. And it's grey and it's quite sort of stale, and it was almost like a chore to go into the office. Now, you know, some of the premises I used to look after in facilities, you know, you'd have these sort of breakout, there'd be somewhere you could have a nap, there'd be these sort of cushioned areas, bean bags, I'm not a big fan of a beanbag, can never get up. But like there were different zones so that again your day in terms of that creative thinking or having to have some focus time, you could move, you can breathe, you can you know utilize that space for for what you need.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Well you've kind of hit the nail on the head there, because like you know, you asked the question uh uh a few bit minutes ago where you said like what does the ideal workplace look for? And don't get me wrong, there are you know there are uh there are absolutely people uh that are neurodivergent or have an access uh requirement and stuff like that where the physical environment needs to be a certain way in order to accommodate them. But actually the ideal work for workplace is somewhere where there is choice. That's the answer. Because you if you ask the question, you know, how do how do we create an environment that's perfect for everyone, you can't. Because because no matter what you do, it's not going to work for someone. But if you create a space that gives everybody choice every day, then they get used to the fact that they can link up the things they're doing with the environments they need to be in. And and do you know what? I think I think this is the thing that's going to bring the generations together. Because I mean like that you know we're at a point in time now where there are five generations in the workforce. And within the next three years, within the next three years, 30% of the workforce are going to be Gen Z.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Terrifying.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

You know. So things are things are changing. So like I know the the time to have the conversation around this is now. And actually, you know, I mean I'm I'm uh what am I, Gen X? I'm Gen X. I look at work very differently. I was very, very pleased to be given my little pod to sit in when I first went to work. I felt very proud of the fact that this little triangle of desk was mine. You know? My world you know exactly and you can and and I I mean that being from Gen X created a sort of an inherently loyal sort of like behaviour trait in me. You know, I would have loved to have found the perfect job right at the beginning and just stayed there and got my gold watch at the end. But I don't really see it like that anymore. I've still maintained the loyalty side of things but actually you know I I I kind of understand the way that people look at work now that actually you know all of the things you do for work are actually a patchwork that you bring together to create your life experience. And if you create a workspace that's like that too, it gives people choice. And I've learned, you know, I I mean there are certain tasks that I need quiet for. There are, you know, I've got used to the fact that sometimes me actually working is being in the office and not doing any work and just talking to people all day. Because that's quite important in my role is to actually actually engage with people.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Aaron Ross Powell That generational thing's quite interesting actually because I I was reading something about um so the older generations they want to be in they want to be five days they want to be connected they want to be at that in that triangle in that pod of their their own you know and part of that. I'm in the generation of just over 40 where I don't want to be in any office on any day of the week. I would much rather be at home I can do the school run I can go for a coffee I can you know I can do those things. I like people that's part of my role so I I like to have that connection but on my terms. So again if I'm going to be in an office or a space for a day I don't want to have any calls planned. I want to be in the office so I can do that connection. And then you've got the younger generations who then they want to be in that's part of their almost their social life they're having lunch they're going out afterwards. So it is really difficult isn't it again especially on this mandate of you know we were talking to a a talent uh exec the other day and she was saying that more and more and more businesses are going back to four or five days a week in the office which is a massive thing for some people.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

That's driven by two things part part of it is cost. So like you know um businesses have buildings that they're paying to have maintained and they're paying to occupy you know so they want them used. You know you you you absolutely don't want an empty building all the time. But also like it's recognizing that different generations, you know, like the the younger generations have a propensity to sort of like be very hybrid and to s and to stay more more of the time at home and that sort of thing. But actually that's kind of if you allow all of that it's doing them a bit of a disservice because actually I think the workplace has a responsibility to help them to you know acclimatise to dealing with other people because we can't we can't all suddenly not engage with anyone and only speak through our screens. I think there's still I think there's still value in encouraging people to interact in person.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

I like to see that people have feet like where it's a bit like oh this is how tall you are like you do get like in terms of just sort of blinded by just seeing someone's heads and shoulders you do yeah quite often I'm like wow you're much taller than I thought you were going to be it's different people are different in 2D than 3D which obviously that's Colin you have obviously had um a really interesting career you have travelled you've seen a lot you've done a lot I'm curious to know in the world of FM what is the best workplace adjustment that you've ever seen? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

It's a great question and I really struggled to find anything one of my customers now is a um is a college for physicians and they have a massive auditorium which they are currently completely refitting and they have right from the get-go created a space that works for neurodivergent people. So I am loving that because do you know what creating a space that works for neurodivergent people doesn't negatively affect people that aren't neurodivergent at all.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Say it again.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

It makes no difference. It makes a huge difference to people that are neurodivergent but there is nothing about that that would negatively affect so how have they done that then how because an auditorium is quite an intimidating environment.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

The noise I suppose how it echoes the lights exactly that. Like how are they doing that?

SPEAKER_03 27:08

So it's flexibility around lighting it's different textures and like you know like relief patterns on walls and stuff like that. There are spaces that can be there are spaces that can be isolated from different areas of the auditorium and stuff like that. There are there are ways where you don't have to look at what you're hearing you can just hear it if if that's better for you. But it's um it's really really flexible. So like you can kind of well it it helps to open up the conversation. So whoever's coming you can say what do you need from us you know and it moves away from that okay we've got a quiet room for you if you need to go and calm down. Which is what you're then segregated aren't you? Yeah. Well yeah exactly exactly so yeah so um that's one of my top ones.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

That's very clever in terms of the design phase because obviously there's things you can do as a retrospective but then you're obviously limited but to sort of come in as part of the design and say do you know what we want to make sure that this space is inclusive that's that's huge.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

And it makes a huge difference well from from a personal perspective for me as the person who's diagnosed with autism ADHD and dyspraxia that I am not the person who is constantly having to be flexible, adjust, shrink do the gymnastics of emotions to try and thrive in a space it would be no if that was normalized and I could go into any space and the space would fit me rather than me have to become a a contortionist in order to be able to do my work that would really help me in terms of being able to deliver. So is that something that you have witnessed or seen Colin in terms of when these spaces have been implemented is there a direct correlation between the the productivity or the happiness or the well being of the people who are utilising those spaces?

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Absolutely yeah totally it's like the the the positivity in their workplace experience completely completely changes. We um I th I put it down to the fact that we've always been really gobby about what we believe in at Pareto but we have attracted a large amount of people that have neurodivergent characteristics. And what we've managed to do in our business is normalise the conversation. So actually anybody that has any neurodivergent characteristic can talk to us and then they're not afraid to you know and like you know I I sat down with them so I there was a point about two years ago when I realized that there were nine dyslexic people all in the same business unit and I asked them if they fancied getting together just to have a chat with me and they said okay and I and uh and I just got them all together and I just said talk to me about your experience of c of coming to work here as a dyslexic you know what worked what didn't work what could we do more what did you have to find for yourself and all that sort of thing and through that conversation not only did they all completely relax about the fact that they had this thing that was slightly different about them but they were able to give me all the information I needed to put a whole resource page together on our intranet so that anybody, they don't need to say hi I'm dyslexic, what do you have for me? They can go onto the the intranet on their own and research what we've already got. I got the IT department to write a handbook for how to access all of the different settings in Outlook to set it the way you need it. You know and uh I went out there when we got some we we've got some apps and things we've got three different apps that will do transcriptions for you and stuff like that. Now that we're using AI a lot more in the workplace um I wrote a hints and tips document for uh for them so that they would be able to like uh give it the right prompts so that it can help them speed up their work and all that sort of thing. So so yeah that was um see this is why you're an inspirational document.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

This is why you need to claim it.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Well do you know and do you know what like it's only because I listen to people. I I I I am I am uh insanely curious. I I love meeting new people and I love understanding what makes them tick because I want to know what I can do to help them tick more happily.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

The key word there is curiosity. I think if we could lead with curiosity over judgment when we look at marginalized communities and people have different intersections, we would have so much more and we would get so much more. Yeah I think we're ready for the final question.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

I think we are do you want to hit the final question?

SPEAKER_01 31:37

No I want you to hit the final question I will hit the final question.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Colin So for each of these interviews we've been doing as part of this podcast we want to fast forward three years into the future. So please take yourself to that moment. And we want to know what progress would you hope to see across UK businesses?

SPEAKER_03 31:55

Well I'm going to answer that from a facilities lean. You go for it of course I would like to see inclusion conversations happening naturally as an embedded part of how we work. I don't want people to see it as an as an add-on that you need to go, oh hang on, we've been asked to think about this. Right from the moment that people break ground and start thinking I'm gonna build something here I want people to think about inclusion as a business and productivity driver right from the get-go. Because the the the workplace the workplace is a tool for people to thrive. That's what it is. It's not you know it's not just a shiny metal and glass thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Oh I really like that.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

You know it is and and I and we need to connect with that fully and considering inclusion at every step of the way is just part of creating an environment where anyone can thrive on their own terms.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Aaron Ross Powell And that's exactly the example you gave earlier and again these this doesn't have to cost loads of money. No. Again you your example earlier about having was it textures on the on the walls for the again I'd appreciate that as a neurotypical person. I that it's not going to be offensive to me. I'd be like oh that's nice I've that I like the feeling of that but that's going to make a massive difference to Shah for example and I'd be completely and blissfully unaware of that but so it's that's that's yeah really powerful.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

But it's I mean it's not even about just the the built environment it's it's it's curiosity it is I I um I have someone that has uh that that is um uh autism ADHD um and has and has a a physical health issue as well and I just I just said to him what do you need from me? And he said to me he said you know what he said I just like to know what to expect. He said you know I've I've got used to living in your world for you know for years I just like to know what to expect. So all I every time we do something new you know I just uh you know I just say right it's gonna play out like this even to the point where I'm at I'm now he trusts me so much that I'm allowed to say I don't know what we're gonna expect. So um when uh when we sponsored the Diva Awards one year um I brought him along with me because I thought he'd love he'd love to see this environment and I had to say to him I don't know what to expect. It's gonna be a big noisy room with flashing lights and a dinner but I don't know what to expect because I hadn't been before. But he was quite comfortable with that because then we were going in together not really knowing what was going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

I like that. And I I think that is you know a perfect echo of who you are because what you have told us our inspirational role model is that you have created enough psychological safety for a person to be able to ask you for help to ask you for support and even when you don't have the answer it's absolutely okay because you were safe enough for them to come to in the first place. Colin you are fantastic thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Thank you ever so much Colin and thank you ever so much to Paramount as well for lending their studios again today and we look forward to our next episode of the series.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

If you enjoyed this podcast or you heard anything that you liked please remember to share it with those people who need to hear it. Colin said the workplace is a tool for us to thrive so if there's anybody that you know who would thrive from hearing this conversation then please share it with them. If you need anything more from us don't forget to search under the global umbrella thank you so much for listening and we'll see you soon